There Are Only Two Problems with the Trinity Doctrine

There are only two things wrong with the doctrine of the Trinity.  However, they are each fatal to its argument.  The Trinity doctrine is incoherent and it is unbiblical.

The trinity doctrine is incoherent.  The only possible coherence to three being one is contradiction.  To say that there are three “persons” but only one “being” is just semantically sidestepping the issue.

The trinity doctrine is unbiblical.  All its defenses were written after the Old and New Testaments were completed.  There is no declaration, explanation, or defense of this doctrine in the Bible.  It is a doctrine of man whereas the Bible is “Thus saith the Lord.”

The only thing that the doctrine of the Trinity has going for it is over a thousand years of church leaders saying, “Yes, it’s so.”  If you walk in the fear of man you’ll find that pretty impressive.  However, to those who fear God it is unimpressive to say the least.

For more, see:

There Is No Trinity; There Is Christ

Posts to Date on the Trinity Versus Christ

18 Replies to “There Are Only Two Problems with the Trinity Doctrine”

  1. Agreed.

    RC Trinitarians say that their ‘one triune god’ is made up of three persons , the Father, Son and Holy Spirit, and they say that without anyone of these ‘persons’ there is no God. They say that the Holy Spirit is one person because of the singular masculine pronoun used, yet they fail to accept this when God the Father, the one true God, is described with singular pronouns. For that matter, when they claim Jesus is God, what exactly do they mean? The mind boggles! On one hand they expect us to believe that God is three persons, and on on the other that he is one!! On one hand they accept a singular pronoun, and on the other they do not.

    Tell me , how do you read this statement?

    Tom is John’s Dad. John is Tom’s son. Tom is also the Boss, and his son John works for him. John is sent to another branch by his Dad to see if the staff are doing their work properly. Tom has given John his blessing and authority- he has given power to him, to act in his place, by way of a letter of authority. John arrives at the branch and the workers see the Boss’s son. John tells them his Dad has sent him to check on them, and that he will report back to him, and as a proof of this he shows them his letter of authority. The staff acknowledge John is their boss, and they call him their boss. Which is right and proper, because he is, however, John points out to them that although he is their boss and they are right to honour him as boss, the true Boss is his Dad, and that they should always remember this and that he must do what his Dad has asked him to do and return back and give an account to him.

    Q. Who is the one true Boss?

    RC Trinitarian answer:

    “The one true Boss is Tom, John and the Letter of Authority. Each one is Boss and they are each the same, co-equal and co-eternal, and all-knowing, and without any one of them there is no Boss. However, it should be noted, they are not three Bosses, but one Boss. Capiche?”

    O RC Trinitarian! Did you bang your head? But this does not make any sense…it does not say that at all!

    “My son, this can easily be deduced from the text…ten scholars agree with me and I have a PhD in Finance and Science Fiction..but it is not for man to understand it…it is not for man to understand the deep things of Boss.”

    But, RC Trinitarian, it says the one true Boss is Tom, and Tom only! In fact, John even says so! But you are saying the one true Boss is Tom, John and the Letter of Authority, and each one is the Boss, and if any one of these is not present, then no one is the Boss! How can this be?

    “Foolish child, do not question this, you will never understand it, just believe…now do you understand why it is said that it is impossible to please the Boss without faith? Have faith, and believe! Your Salvation depends upon it!”

    Ah yes…thank you, I see now, the one Triune Boss in all his splendour..in trinity with stupidity and ignominy, forever blessed by the adoring and ignorant…et cetera, et cetera… and all things tripe.

  2. So-called and self-professed intellectuals.
    Some people have a problem in calling Jesus ‘God’. It depends on what people mean by ‘God’ and the context.
    John 5:23 All men may honour the Son as they honour the Father.
    It is right and proper to call Jesus a ‘god’ or even ‘God’. He is the Son of God, therefore he is a God, he is of God. But this also implies he has a Father- and when both are placed in the same sentence, the Father is the Supreme. This is why Jesus calls the Father the true God. Jesus says he has a God and that this God is his Father. Jesus also says the Father is greater than himself, and that the Father is omniscient, whereas the Son is not. Jesus is termed ‘mighty God”, but the ‘Almighty’ is the Father, if both are placed in the same sentence. This is why the apostles and the early church fathers would often start letters with ‘The God and Father of our Lord Jesus Christ..’.
    Jesus is my God, he is as God to me. ‘Whoever hears me, hears the One who sent me..whoever sees me, sees the One who sent me..’ But if the Father had not raised Jesus from the dead, he would still be dead. The Father resides in Jesus and Jesus glorifies the Father. Jesus’ name means ‘Yahweh Saves’.The Father alone is immortal and no-one has seen him or his shape. Trinitarians have a completely different understanding of the word ‘God’.

  3. Excessive arguments about the trinity are not edifying. What is both edifying and unifying is to camp on the fact that Jesus is Lord – a truth expressed in the New Testament explicitly, repeatedly, and emphatically. This means doing what Jesus says (Luke 6:46). Even the Father has made clear that for all practical purposes the Son is the boss (Matthew 17:5).

  4. Thanks for your response. Actually, I did not ask who is the boss. I asked who is the True Boss.

    Thank you for quoting Luke 6:46 and Matthew 17:5. It reinforces God’s requirement for us to listen to Jesus and do what he says- which includes the commands to worship the one true God His Father, to honour the Son as we honour the Father, and how we must pray to the Father. Just as you stated the above scripture references, the above commands of Jesus have also been clearly stated in the Gospels. There ought to be no argument about this.

    I agree that discussion should be edifying and hopefully unifying – but not if means being unified in false doctrine. You state that the RC trinity is an ‘idol of intellectualism’. In the Book of Revelation, we are commanded by Jesus to come out of false doctrine. Paul also states the same. Do you agree that a fiery judgement awaits the unrepentant idol worshipper?

    The trinity doctrine is antichrist- it denies the testimony the Father gives of the Son and the testimony the Son gives of the Father. The ‘triune god’ is a false god. It is not the God of the Bible. I am sorry if this offends you and others, that is not my intention, but it is the truth, and since I care about people and want them to be saved, I cannot keep silent. However, I also will not force my view on anyone, and if you wish to end this discussion I will not continue. Please let me know.

  5. You must have had only a limited exposure to my blogs. I have written extensively against the trinity. It is a false idea, born of the notion that Jesus did not come in glory when He said He would.

    For a summary of my views, see here.

    1. I am glad you agree that the RC trinity is false. But you did not answer my question- in my analogy, who is the true Boss? The Son or the Father?

      Also, do you agree that a fiery judgement awaits the unrepentant idol worshipper?

      You also did not say what you thought of Jesus commands to worship the one true God the Father, to pray to the Father, and to honour the Son as we honour the Father.

      I will check the link later when I have some more time to go through it.

  6. If you would have checked out the summary of my views to which I linked above, you would have the answers to your questions. However, I will encapsulate here.

    The Father was the true Boss; the Son is the true Boss. (For more, see There Is No Trinity; There Is Christ.)

    Fiery judgment is upon us all. We live in the day of the Lord which is the day of judgment. (For more, see Judgment Is Upon Us.)

    For us in this age to honor the Son as the Father is to honor the Son instead of the Father. There can only ever be one Lord and one God; understanding the coming of the kingdom of God is the only way to sort this out. For this reason, I suggest you read Jesus Christ Has Already Come Again.

  7. Thank you for your response, but you are entirely mistaken. Your answer is wrong.

    You have wonderfully proved a point I was trying to make. My analogy was only 12 lines in length, and of those, 7 were unequivocally stating and implying that the Father is the true Boss, with the last 5 lines the Son himself explicitly stating that the Father is the true Boss. Yet, you have somehow come to the conclusion that the Son is the true Boss.

    Is it any wonder that you have so misunderstood the Bible, with well over 1,000 pages of text?

    Following your line of thinking for a moment, you say that the Father ‘was’ the true Boss and the Son ‘is’the true Boss, because there can only be one Lord and one God and because you say we are to honour the Son as true God ‘instead’ of the Father as true God.

    1. What is the Father’s status now, if he is no longer the true God?

    2. Is he to be worshipped/honoured at all?

    3. When the Son stated that he should be honoured as the Father is honoured, he also stated that people should believe in the One True God the Father, and also his Son. If he meant ‘instead’, then he would be contradicting himself by saying that people should believe in the one true God the Father. Do you not dishonour both the Father and the Son by not accepting the words of the Son, that his Father is the true God?

    The correct answer: The Father is still the true God and the Son is to be honoured as the Father, not instead of the Father. This does not take away from the concept of one God because the Son derived his power from his Father, was sent by his Father and is the instrument the Father is using to fulfil His plan. The Son is acting with his Father’s authority, which is conferred upon him by his Father. The entire performance has been orchestrated by the Father.

    I managed to take a brief look at some of the new links you provided and much is totally unbiblical. Please prayerfully read the Bible again. I will pray for you.

  8. You will never understand this issue unless and until you get serious about obeying the teaching of Jesus. As He Himself said “no one comes to the Father but through Me” (John 14:6).

    Think, speak, and act in the way that Jesus has taught us – after all, He was not named Lord for nothing – and you will be on the path to greater understanding (Proverbs 4:18).

    Anyone who goes too far and does not abide in the teaching of Christ, does not have God; the one who abides in the teaching, he has both the Father and the Son. – 2 John 1:9

  9. Please go through my analogy again. It will help you to understand the message of the Bible.

    John 14:24 NIV
    Anyone who does not love me will not obey my teaching. These words you hear are not my own; they belong to the Father who sent me.

    You quote John 14:6, but for full understanding you need to read what Jesus said in John 6:44

    Do you begin to see now how forming a doctrine on one verse and not the whole can lead you to a wrong understanding?

    Please prayerfully read each verse below, taken from the Bible. Hopefully you will see your error and repent.

    John 10:17-18 NIV
    The reason my Father loves me is that I lay down my life–only to take it up again.No one takes it from me, but I lay it down of my own accord. I have authority to lay it down and authority to take it up again. This command I received from my Father.”

    John 6:44 NIV
    “No one can come to me unless the Father who sent me draws them, and I will raise them up at the last day”

    John 6:39 NIV
    And this is the will of him who sent me, that I shall lose none of all those he has given me, but raise them up at the last day.

    1Corinthians 6:14 NIV
    By his power God raised the Lord from the dead, and he will raise us also.

    Romans 8:11 NIV
    And if the Spirit of him who raised Jesus from the dead is living in you, he who raised Christ from the dead will also give life to your mortal bodies because of his Spirit who lives in you.

    Acts 2:22-24
    Men of Israel, listen to these words: Jesus the Nazarene, a man attested to you by God with miracles and wonders and signs which God performed through Him in your midst, just as you yourselves know— 23this Man, delivered over by the predetermined plan and foreknowledge of God, you nailed to a cross by the hands of godless men and put Him to death. 24“But God raised Him up again, putting an end to the agony of death, since it was impossible for Him to be held in its power.

    Acts 2:29-33
    29 “Fellow Israelites, I can tell you confidently that the patriarch David died and was buried, and his tomb is here to this day. 30 But he was a prophet and knew that God had promised him on oath that he would place one of his descendants on his throne. 31 Seeing what was to come, he spoke of the resurrection of the Messiah, that he was not abandoned to the realm of the dead, nor did his body see decay.32 God has raised this Jesus to life, and we are all witnesses of it.33 Exalted to the right hand of God, he has received from the Father the promised Holy Spirit and has poured out what you now see and hear.

    Acts 3:12-16NIV
    12 When Peter saw this, he said to them: “Fellow Israelites, why does this surprise you? Why do you stare at us as if by our own power or godliness we had made this man walk? 13 The God of Abraham, Isaac and Jacob, the God of our fathers, has glorified his servant Jesus. You handed him over to be killed, and you disowned him before Pilate,though he had decided to let him go. 14 You disowned the Holy and Righteous One and asked that a murderer be released to you. 15 You killed the author of life, but God raised him from the dead. We are witnesses of this. 16 By faith in the name of Jesus, this man whom you see and know was made strong. It is Jesus’ name and the faith that comes through him that has completely healed him, as you can all see.

    John 5:19 NIV
    Jesus gave them this answer: “Very truly I tell you, the Son can do nothing by himself; he can do only what he sees his Father doing, because whatever the Father does the Son also does.

    John 5:30 NIV
    By myself I can do nothing; I judge only as I hear, and my judgment is just, for I seek not to please myself but him who sent me.

    Questions on the above verses:

    1.Who has given Jesus the authority to raise himself?

    2.Jesus was part of whose predetermined plan?

    3. Who is Jesus anxious to please?

    4. Who has given those to Jesus, who Jesus will raise up by God’s power?

    5. Who is the true God?

  10. 1. Who has given Jesus the authority to raise himself? The Father.

    2. Jesus was part of whose predetermined plan? The Father’s.

    3. Who is Jesus anxious to please? The Father.

    4. Who has given those to Jesus, who Jesus will raise up by God’s power? The Father.

    5. Who is the true God? The Son (Matthew 11:27; 28:18; Luke 10:22; John 5:22-23; 16:15; Hebrews 1:2; 1 John 5:11-12; Isaiah 9:6)

    As I said, you will continue misunderstanding this issue until you cease to try to understand it exclusively with your mind and devote yourself to actualizing the lordship of Christ in your life.

    “…A good understanding have all those who do His commandments…” – Psalm 111:10

    It’s through humble recognition of, and obedience to, Christ that the truths of God are revealed to us.

    “At that time Jesus said, ‘I praise You, Father, Lord of heaven and earth, that You have hidden these things from the wise and intelligent and have revealed them to infants’.” – Matthew 11:25

  11. John 14:10 NIV
    10 Don’t you believe that I am in the Father, and that the Father is in me? The words I say to you I do not speak on my own authority. Rather, it is the Father, living in me, who is doing his work.

    Yet you claim that the Son IS the Father. This is false. The above verse does not make sense with your claim.

    1 Corinthians 15:14-28
    14 And if Christ has not been raised, our preaching is useless and so is your faith.15 More than that, we are then found to be false witnesses about God, for we have testified about God that he raised Christ from the dead. But he did not raise him if in fact the dead are not raised. 16 For if the dead are not raised, then Christ has not been raised either. 17 And if Christ has not been raised, your faith is futile; you are still in your sins. 18 Then those also who have fallen asleep in Christ are lost. 19 If only for this life we have hope in Christ, we are of all people most to be pitied.
    20 But Christ has indeed been raised from the dead, the firstfruits of those who have fallen asleep. 21 For since death came through a man, the resurrection of the dead comes also through a man. 22 For as in Adam all die, so in Christ all will be made alive. 23 But each in turn: Christ, the firstfruits;then, when he comes, those who belong to him. 24 Then the end will come, when he hands over the kingdom to God the Father after he has destroyed all dominion, authority and power. 25 For he must reign until he has put all his enemies under his feet. 26 The last enemy to be destroyed is death. 27 For he “has put everything under his feet.”[c] Now when it says that “everything” has been put under him, it is clear that this does not include God himself, who put everything under Christ. 28 When he has done this, then the Son himself will be made subject to him who put everything under him, so that God may be all in all.

    Yet you claim the Son IS the Father. This is false. The above verses do not make sense with your claim.

    All the quotes you provide agree with everything I have already stated. They all acknowledge the Father’s role as the Supreme. The Isaiah 9:6 quote agrees with everything I said. Although there are different translations of this verse which produce a different meaning, the translation you have provided still speaks of Christ the Son as being given to us, described as a mighty God, which he is. But he is not the Almighty God, who is the Father. Do not forget that Christ the Son is described by the same prophet – Isaiah 7:14 Therefore the Lord himself will give you a sign: The virgin will conceive and give birth to a son, and will call him Immanuel (which means ‘God with us’).
    He is also described as God’s servant in Isaiah 53. We also know that Jesus means ‘Yahweh Saves’. We are told by the Son that he has come in his Father’s name.This does not mean he IS the Father!

    You quote Matthew 11:25 to me but fail to realise that even infants would be able to provide the correct answer to my analogy and to my question number 5 above, which you could not. It is not me but you who do not abide in the teaching of Christ. 2 John 1:9

    My views are also shared by Polycarp, the first century church father who was a pupil of John the apostle and also by Irenaeus, who had conversed with Polycarp. I suggest you also read what they have to say. Perhaps they can convince you of your error.

  12. “For not even the Father judges anyone, but He has given all judgment to the Son, so that all will honor the Son even as they honor the Father. He who does not honor the Son does not honor the Father who sent Him.” – John 5:22-23

    If the Father left “all judgment to the Son,” then there is no judging left for the Father to do. Moreover, there are only two ways people can “honor the Son even as they honor the Father” – either by the Son taking the Father’s place or by honoring the two simultaneously, which amounts to polytheism. Since you are unwilling to give the Son the honor previously given to the Father you have chosen a form of polytheism, which is very similar to what the trinitarians have done.

    You arrive in this place because you are trusting in your own understanding instead of the Lord (Proverbs 3:5). As I’ve repeatedly said, understanding this issue is as much a function of humble obedience as it is thinking clearly. It’s not that a child is able to understand it (as you suggest) but that a childlike attitude is able to receive the revelation that God can give (Matthew 11:25).

    You also seem to be forgetting that Jesus did not walk the earth with omniscience. He was tempted in all things as we are yet without sin (Hebrews 4:15), which would not have been possible with omniscience. Of course, everything He said and thought was true, but it was a temporary stage of His existence.

    Nevertheless, you seem content with your view. I am content with mine. Perhaps we should just leave the matter there.

  13. After reading my analogy you said:

    “Even the Father has made clear that for all practical purposes the Son is the boss.”

    In my analogy, the Son is the boss, and the Father is the True Boss. Your above statement agrees with is. Considering you also said later that the Father WAS God, and now Jesus IS God, one can only logically assume even by your strange logic that the Father must have conferred this upon Jesus, and that they cannot be one and the same person, since you say “Even the Father has made clear…”

    I had asked you who is the True Boss, the correct answer of course being the Father.

    Yet when we replace Tom and John with the words God the Father and his Son our Lord Jesus Christ, you now say that the Son IS the Father!

    Can you not see your contradiction?

    You totally ignored 1 Corinthians 15:14-28 KJV, which makes it abundantly clear that Jesus, including his rule in heaven and on earth,is totally subject to the command of the Father.

    Consider my analogy again. The True Boss is the Father. The Son Is the boss. The Son says he has a Boss, who is the True Boss. What is so difficult to understand? The True Boss sent the Son to do His work. The Father conferred authority upon the Son who will, after he has completed His Father’s work, make everything subject to His Father. Honouring the Son as the Father does not mean following two gods, as the Son states that the Father is his God, that his Father is the True God, who has sent him to do his work. This is the Gospel, this sums up the Bible and is the true message. You are blissfully ignorant and spreading a false gospel.

  14. “The True Boss is the Father. The Son Is the boss” is an equivocation, much like “God is three persons in one being” is an equivocation. Neither God nor His spokesmen are equivocal (2 Cor 1:17-19). You have not escaped the snare of trinitarianism which is intellectual self-reliance.

    As for what you think is my contradiction, consider that when you are raised from the dead you could be called “the son of Jacob” because you will have been born from the dead Jacob. At that time, Jacob will be who you were and the son of Jacob will be who you became. Thus Jacob will be father to the son of Jacob. This is how a father becomes the son.

  15. There is nothing equivocal about the statement “The True Boss is the Father. The Son is the boss”, as I have already explained. On the contrary it could not be more unequivocal. Perhaps you should look up the meaning of the word. On the contrary, saying that “Son IS the Father” from the above statement would be equivocal.And Paul agrees with me. Since you mentioned it, let’s have a look at 2 Corinthians 1 and put the verses you mentioned back into context. Please also note the opening address:

    2 Grace and peace to you from God our Father and the Lord Jesus Christ.

    3 Praise be to the God and Father of our Lord Jesus Christ, the Father of compassion and the God of all comfort, 4 who comforts us in all our troubles, so that we can comfort those in any trouble with the comfort we ourselves receive from God.

    But this happened that we might not rely on ourselves but on God,who raises the dead. 10 He has delivered us from such a deadly peril,and he will deliver us again.

    12 Now this is our boast: Our conscience testifies that we have conducted ourselves in the world, and especially in our relations with you, with integrity[b] and godly sincerity.

    “we have done so, relying not on worldly wisdom but on God’s grace. 13 For we do not write you anything you cannot read or understand”

    18 But as surely as God is faithful, our message to you is not “Yes” and “No.” 19 For the Son of God, Jesus Christ, who was preached among you by us—by me and Silas[c] and Timothy—was not “Yes” and “No,” but in him it has always been “Yes.” 20 For no matter how many promises God has made, they are “Yes” in Christ. And so through him the “Amen” is spoken by us to the glory of God. 21 Now it is God who makes both us and you stand firm in Christ.

    Paul states unequivocally that God is the Father and the Son of God is Jesus Christ. He is speaking at the time Christ is with his Father in heaven. As he says in verse 13 above,

    “For we do not write you anything you cannot read or understand”.

    Any comments? Would you agree that the above statements by Paul would he impossible to understand if we took your claim that ‘Jesus IS the Father’?

    No where in the Bible does Christ say he has become the Father or IS the Father.Paul could have easily written that.No where in the Bible does it say that Christ IS the Father. It is you who have gone beyond the teaching of the Bible, ignoring the plain simple message.

    As for your last statement, you are standing on extremely shaky ground if you honestly believe that if a person called Jacob died and was then raised to life he could be called ‘the son of Jacob’. Jesus died and was raised to life. Was he called the ‘son of Jesus’? For that matter, what about Lazarus, was he called ‘the son of Lazarus’ when he was raised to life? I don’t think you even seriously believe this yourself, as you used the word ‘could’.
    As I said before, you are spreading a false gospel. Please prayerfully read the Bible, asking God for guidance and truth, through his Son Jesus Christ.

  16. I don’t have time to address all you are raising here, so let’s focus on the most basic element of your argument.

    “The True Boss is the Father. The Son Is the boss.”

    Why do you use the word “boss”?

    Do you consider it synonymous with “Lord”?

    If so, why not just say “Lord”?

    If not, how do “Lord” and “Boss” differ?

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