Trinitarianism Is an Arbitrary Embrace of Contradictions

“The Bible reveals that the Father is God and Lord, that the Son is God and Lord, that the Lord is the Spirit and the Spirit is the Lord, that God is Spirit, and that there is only one God, Lord, and Spirit.”

This is a statement of a Trinitarian about the Trinity.  Note that the sentence contradicts itself by describing two God and two Lords in the beginning and then saying that there is only one God and one Lord in the end.  Trinitarians propose and accept such contradictions, expecting us to do the same.  Yet if you ask them if, since the Father is Lord and the Lord is the Spirit, then isn’t the Father the Holy Spirit, they will say no.  They reject contradictions except when it comes to the ones they arbitrarily choose to embrace.  The ones they embrace, of course, are the ones necessary for their doctrine.

Better to serve Christ in simplicity.  Let us trust Christ and obey His commandment to love.

See also:

There Is No Trinity; There Is Christ

Posts to Date on the Trinity Versus Christ

(*Source of this statement)

8 Replies to “Trinitarianism Is an Arbitrary Embrace of Contradictions”

  1. Mike, those who believe that God is triune believe that the Father, Son, and Spirit are not separate beings. Distinct, but never separate, since the Father, Son, and Spirit mutually exist within one “another.” Hence, no one is adding Gods or Lords together, but applying the same titles to the Father, Son, and Spirit, just as the Scripture does. 1 x 1 x 1 = 1.

    You would have to accuse the authors of Scripture of the same contradictions in profession and testimony, for they said that there is only one God and only one Lord, and yet called both the Father “God” and “Lord” and the Son both “God” and “Lord” and the Spirit “God” and “Lord.”

  2. You claimed in that topic that there is no new revelation of the nature and function of the Spirit in the New Testament, except for an increase in scope and the Spirit going from acting on behalf of the Father to that of the Son. I disproved your assertion by pointing out, for starters, that in the New Testament the Lord Christ is called the Spirit and the Spirit is called “Lord” and the “Lord Spirit.” Now, we know from other passages that there is a distinction between Christ and the Spirit. Nevertheless, the revelation that the Lord is the Spirit does not allow for what you claim, that the Spirit is a separate being from the Lord who is God, and it is a clear indication of the Spirit’s deity.

    The same for the fact that the Bible reveals that God, the Father, the Son, and the Spirit (or equivalent expressions) all indwell the believers (John 14:16-20, 23;17:23; Rom. 8:9-11; 1 Cor. 3:16-17; 1 Cor. 6:19; 2 Cor. 6:16; 13:5; Gal. 2:20; 4:6; Eph. 4:6; Col. 1:27; 1 John 3:24; 1 John 4:4, 12-16), but that there is only One God who indwells the believers and to whom the believers are a temple and dwelling place, not three separate beings.

  3. Mike, those who believe that God is triune believe that the Father, Son, and Spirit are not separate beings. Distinct, but never separate, since the Father, Son, and Spirit mutually exist within one “another.” Hence, no one is adding Gods or Lords together, but applying the same titles to the Father, Son, and Spirit, just as the Scripture does. 1 x 1 x 1 = 1.

    This is the kind of ballast that fills trinitarian arguments. 1 X 1 X 1 = 1 doesn’t prove anything. Sure, the formula is true – but so is 1 X 1 = 1 and 1 X 1 X 1 X 1 = 1. The real purpose of presenting this formula is to distract attention away from the pertinent formula 1 + 1 + 1 = 3.

    “Distinct, but never separate” – like “three persons in one being” – is sophistry for the purpose of legitimizing a contradiction which would otherwise be rejected – the very point of the original post above.

    You would have to accuse the authors of Scripture of the same contradictions in profession and testimony, for they said that there is only one God and only one Lord, and yet called both the Father “God” and “Lord” and the Son both “God” and “Lord” and the Spirit “God” and “Lord.”

    The authors of Scripture are in no way guilty of what you are doing. You are obscuring the fact that Jesus inherited the title Lord from the Father. Subsequent to that event – that is, once He was resurrected from the dead and seated at the right hand of God – He was commonly called Lord and the Father was seldom called Lord. Conversely Jesus was seldom called God while the Father was commonly called God.

    The Holy Spirit was only called God because He was “the Spirit of God” and only called Lord because He was “the Spirit of the Lord.”

    Trinitarians take advantage of peoples’ lack of familiarity with the Scriptures to perpetuate this man-made doctrine. Let God reveal Himself and let man simply spread the word.

    Let us live in the fear of Christ – our Lord and Savior!

  4. You claimed in that topic that there is no new revelation of the nature and function of the Spirit in the New Testament, except for an increase in scope and the Spirit going from acting on behalf of the Father to that of the Son. I disproved your assertion by pointing out, for starters, that in the New Testament the Lord Christ is called the Spirit and the Spirit is called “Lord” and the “Lord Spirit.” Now, we know from other passages that there is a distinction between Christ and the Spirit. Nevertheless, the revelation that the Lord is the Spirit does not allow for what you claim, that the Spirit is a separate being from the Lord who is God, and it is a clear indication of the Spirit’s deity.

    You are proving the point of the original post above. That is, you are arbitrarily choosing selected contradictions to embrace. You reject contradictions – except when you need to embrace one for the sake of your man-made doctrine. For example, you say that “the Lord Christ is called the Spirit” but you won’t agree that means “the Lord Christ” and “the Spirit” are the same being. You’re like an unbeliever in that both of you say Scripture contradicts itself – the only difference is that you say you embrace the contradiction.

    The same for the fact that the Bible reveals that God, the Father, the Son, and the Spirit (or equivalent expressions) all indwell the believers (John 14:16-20, 23;17:23; Rom. 8:9-11; 1 Cor. 3:16-17; 1 Cor. 6:19; 2 Cor. 6:16; 13:5; Gal. 2:20; 4:6; Eph. 4:6; Col. 1:27; 1 John 3:24; 1 John 4:4, 12-16), but that there is only One God who indwells the believers and to whom the believers are a temple and dwelling place, not three separate beings.

    Here again, you accuse the Bible of being self-contradictory. The Bible does not contradict itself. I used to think it did when I was an agnostic, but once I began reading it I found that I had been wrong. God cannot lie and therefore He cannot contradict Himself.


  5. This is the kind of ballast that fills trinitarian arguments. 1 X 1 X 1 = 1 doesn’t prove anything. Sure, the formula is true – but so is 1 X 1 = 1 and 1 X 1 X 1 X 1 = 1. The real purpose of presenting this formula is to distract attention away from the pertinent formula 1 + 1 + 1 = 3.

    “Distinct, but never separate” – like “three persons in one being” – is sophistry for the purpose of legitimizing a contradiction which would otherwise be rejected – the very point of the original post above.


    Mike, this is just gas. You’re piling high the accusations, but not demonstrating anything. Those who believe that God is triune (and aren’t unwitting tri-theists) don’t believe that the Father, Son, and Spirit are separate beings, and hence one can’t add them together like you would three human beings. And how is your also noting that 1 x 1 x 1 x 1 = 1 relevant when the Bible only names the Father, Son, and Spirit as Lord, or mentions the Father, Son, and Spirit as sharing one name (Matt. 28:19), or only refers to the Father, Son, and Spirit as the One God who indwells the believers?

    “Distinct, but not separate” is not a contradiction, since “distinct” and “separate” are different concepts. The most you should say is that you cannot understand how the Father, Son, and Spirit could be distinct but not separate.

    The authors of Scripture are in no way guilty of what you are doing…

    They’re not “guilty” of saying that the Father is God and Lord, that the Son is God and Lord, and that the Spirit is God and Lord, and yet somehow there is only one God and Lord?

    Even you have admitted that the apostles present the Father and Son as “two.” I say distinctly “two” but still one being (since the Father and Son are one, and the Father is in the Son and the Son is in the Father, cf. John 10:30, 14:10-11), but you say separately “two.” So you’re the one who has the apostles entertaining contradictions. Why would they present them as two separate beings if they were not muddle-headed or confused and knew otherwise? Sure, they emphasize the Father as “God” and Christ as “Lord,” but they also say that the Father is the Lord, that the Son is the Lord, and that God is the Lord (Matt 4:7; Matt 11:25; Luke 1:32; John 1:1; 20:17, 28; Acts 3:20, 22, 4:26; 17:24; James 3:9; Heb. 1:8; Rev. 21:1; 22:5-6). Besides, “Lord” itself is a divine title. So, in your scheme, who did the apostles and the first century believers worship? Did they worship “God” or the “Lord”? Both?

    What you call “arbitrary” is what the New Testament Scripture presents. The real problem is that you don’t accept the biblical testimony in simplicity, so you invented your doctrine about the Father “dying” and “becoming” the Son and ceasing to exist as Father, even though Christ and the apostles professed and even prayed to a Father (e.g. John 17; Eph. 3:14-21) that existed at the same time as the Son and the many believers who are also heirs of God. Further, you claim that the Spirit is a separate being from God and is simply God’s agent.

    The Holy Spirit was only called God because He was “the Spirit of God” and only called Lord because He was “the Spirit of the Lord.”

    If that’s all that Paul meant, he could have said only that, as there is an expression for this in Greek. But He specifically said that the Lord (Christ) is the Spirit and the Spirit is the “Lord Spirit” (2 Cor. 3:17-18) and that He became life-giving Spirit (1 Cor. 15:45b, cf. 2 Cor. 3:6, John 6:63), a new revelation in the New Testament. Of course he did not mean this in every sense imaginable (e.g. in a sense that there is no distinction), just as Isaiah 9:6 does not mean that the Father is the Son in every sense. But here the Spirit’s deity and Lordship and oneness with Christ is asserted as strongly as is Christ’s oneness with the Father, and note that the Scripture reveals that the Father, Son, and Spirit continually exist at the same time, not a swapping of existence. Further, the New Testament refers to “God,” the “Father,” “the Son” and the “Spirit” (or the equivalent expressions) as the One who indwells the believers. How do you account for this? Do you think that among God, the Father, Christ, and the Spirit named as dwelling within the believers there are separate beings, such that two or more separate beings indwell the believers? The problem is that if one does not have the experience of God in Christ as the Spirit indwelling them, then the spirit of their mind will be less renewed and prepared to receive and appreciate the spiritual fact in Scripture.


  6. Here again, you accuse the Bible of being self-contradictory. The Bible does not contradict itself. I used to think it did when I was an agnostic, but once I began reading it I found that I had been wrong. God cannot lie and therefore He cannot contradict Himself.

    1 John 4:12a says that “No one has beheld God at any time…” and yet Exodus 24:10a, 11 says, “And they saw the God of Israel…And He did not stretch out His hand upon the nobles of the children of Israel. And they beheld God and ate and drank.” Is this a contradiction? For a skeptic or detractor, yes, case closed, and therefore the Bible contradicts itself and is not reliable. But we might say that these two passages are referring to “God” being “beheld” in two different senses even though the same expressions are used.

    In kind, I am not saying that three Gods equal one God, or that three separate beings equals one undivided being, or that three “persons” equals one “person” at the same time and in the same sense. Since I believe that the Father, Son, and Spirit are distinct (one sense) but not separate (another sense), I certainly don’t accuse the Bible of being self-contradictory. I am saying that the Bible contradicts your own claims about the Father “dying” and “becoming” the Son and ceasing to exist as Father (that is, the Father and Son not existing at the same time). and the Spirit being a separate being from God, or the Father and the Son.

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